SPARKS

[highersynth]

[highersynth]

Welcome to Week 6 of Album Club - w/c 13th August - Big Beat.

You can find a link to the album on Spotify here:
https://open.spotify.com/album/1tOvKFszkk2HZ1rPDFDkrq?si=6itz5XcMSmmZrhMhVb34Cw

Prompts for discussion, if needed, and scores for previous albums, at the top of the thread.

Thanks everyone who is participating!
Just a gentle reminder / pointer for new participants - the object of this thread is to listen with "new ears" and discuss the albums - the scores are for fun / discussion, not the main point.
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Tomorrow I'll find out all I should know...

[Andy M]

I don’t really know why, but I have a soft spot for this album that perhaps, honestly, it really doesn’t deserve. It does have some great tracks on it, led by I Bought the Mississippi River (one of my all-time favourite Sparks songs) and also including such as Fill-Er-Up, White Women, Everybody’s Stupid, Throw Her Away ... Equally, alas, for me it has quite a number that don’t make the grade (put your hands up, Big Boy, Confusion, Screwed Up and I Like Girls especially). I always think of this LP as The One Where Ron Winds Everyone Up, as many of the lyrics/song titles seem designed to do just that. Altogether, I don’t think the music gives the songs their due desserts, if that makes any sense.

I was interested to read in Ruud’s dissection of Big Beat that the LP cover was shot before the album was recorded. It’s certainly stylish, if not particularly interesting, but it fails to represent the punk-influenced, stripped-down nature of the work inside it.

Confusion, I guess, would be the first of R&R’s homages to directors they hoped to work/were working with.

Nothing in Big Beat I’d describe as being weird – unfortunately.

6/10

[waterloosunset]

@highersynth, can you change the heading of the thread? It still says Indiscreet. Thanks!
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better drop the requirement that everything be great

[Buckeye Randy]

In 1976 I was reading music mags but somehow missed reviews of this release. I didn’t learn about it until a girlfriend played it for me in ’77, she knew about the songs in Rollercoaster as well. She liked the album and was an oasis of information and I say no more about her. AOR stations would occasionally play some Sparks but I heard nothing from Big Beat on the radio.

I never owned the LP and did not buy the CD until the 2006 release when I was building my CD collection. I bought it mostly because it was Sparks and I was in my Sparks revival period but but also because of Hilly Michaels and Mick Ronson.

This from Ronson website
Sparks sought out Mick Ronson in 1976 in hopes of having him produce their sixth album, Big Beat, and possibly even join their band. The brothers rehearsed with Mick at Danny Shea's rehearsal room in New York City, with drummer Hilly Michaels and bass player Sal Maida rounding out the group. One of the rehearsals with Ronson was recorded by Hilly Michaels on a portable cassette recorder, and reveals the band working through a number of songs from the Big Beat LP. Mick eventually bowed out of the project, but Hilly Michaels played on the Big Beat album and also played with the band on the subsequent tour. Jeff Salen was recruited to play on the album, and Mick Ronson Band guitarist Jimmy McAllister played on the tour. Hilly would eventually hook up with Mick Ronson again in 1979, in the Ian Hunter Band.

[Hilly Michaels] 'I was living with Mick Ronson on and off for years, auditioning second guitarists and bass players trying to put a new Mick Ronson Band together. One bright blue summer day, Sparks showed up and we jammed. Ron and Russell Mael were hoping that Mick Ronson would not only produce and play on Sparks' first Columbia record, but were hoping he would join the band. To prepare ourselves for the upcoming album Big Beat, the songs being worked on include 'Big Boy', 'Everybody's Stupid', 'I Wanna Be Like Everybody Else', and 'Throw Her Away (and get a new one).'

[Ron Mael, to Jim Wilson] 'The demos featuring Mick Ronson actually sound better than what the final album sounded like. We still have the cassettes of the really rough demos of Mick Ronson playing a lot of the songs and they sound really great because he plays with a lot of abandon. Rupert Holmes finally produced Big Beat and it was such a funny thing because he’s 180 degrees away from the sort of producer that should be producing that kind of sound. It was just a screwy situation.'

[Russell Mael, to Weird & Gilly] 'Mick's manner was more easy-going than we expected. Mick the musician did not let us down with the image we had of him from his work with Bowie. His guitar work was every bit as musician-ly, flashy, and cool as we had expected. Certain pop musicians stand out above the crowd. Mick was one.'

So…I listened with different ears in 2006 than I did nearly 30 years earlier but the result was similar. I thought the spacious sound had a demo quality that was recorded in the trunk of a 1974 Chevy Caprice. As a whole, the release had no ‘IT’ factor. However, there were a couple tracks that became earworms. I was slowly warming to it.

I listened again about six years ago on Spotify when building a Sparks playlist and it started to click a little bit more. I did not find the sound so offensive, the melodies seemed more fun and some of the lyrics hit home.

Listening in 2023…it’s slowly building on what I heard 6 years ago. Songs I like; Everybody’s Stupid, White Women, Screwed Up. I’m warming up to everything else to varying degrees but this album still doesn’t have the ‘IT’ factor.

Least favorites: Fill-Er-Up, Big Boy and Confusion. I think all the bonus tracks are unneeded except Tearing The Place Apart.

I would like to see White Women in a live setting and I think Rob Zombie would do a great cover of this.

Score: I’ll score it a 5.
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Billy, Don't Be A Porter

[highersynth]

[Alex Robertson]

The reviews of this album were less than enthusiastic, accusing Sparks of having a go at being punk, I think this probably encouraged me to make sure I bought it...from Chalmers in Dundee city centre as soon as I finished work that Friday...got home gulped tea...listened to it getting ready before going out on the lash with my mates....Yes I ranted about it all night.
Read that tracks were going to be in a film, I assumed Confusion because I had also read about the Mael/Tati collaboration...I was informed that the film would be Roller Coaster...secretly I hoped that meant two films in the offing.
The disappointing bit of Roller Coaster for me was that Sparks feature wasn't longer...Big Boy sounds as if it's been restarted a couple of times.
I sort of fell in love with Big Boy, Throw Her Away...and I Bought The Mississippi River...and really like the other tracks. A solid 8.5
Didn't get the Rupert Holmes thing till much later but still would've loved to have heard what Ronno's version would've ended up like.

[dinky]

There's a lot of anger in many of the songs here, my favourite, if we're allowed to include demos, is ' Tearing The Place Apart', absolutely heartbreaking lyrics on breaking up.

In the documentary, Jonathon Ross praises the band for treating every album with the same respect, irrespective of how successful it was. Just about the only mistake in the 21 x 21 was Russ getting the lyrics wrong on 'Tearing The Place Apart'. Most bands would have bluffed, skipped a line and ploughed on. Russell ? Nope, we're doing it from the beginning .....48 mins in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KuP4IrAdRQ&t=2940s


The album was produced by Rupert Holmes, he of the ' Pina Colada, Escape' song. Was listening to an interview with him on the Sodajerker podcast. While he doesn't mention Sparks, the way he talks about songwriting, his construct of lyrics and musicals in a song is very reminiscent of Ron

https://www.sodajerker.com/episode-115-rupert-holmes/


Have a look at their interview subjects, literally anyone who's anyone in the music business. Here's the Sparks one, they absolutely love the band


https://www.sodajerker.com/episode-104-sparks/

[highersynth]

Interesting stuff guys - I've only listened once, this morning, and this time I KNOW it's the first time in forty-odd years. So my views will probably evolve over the week.

Currently I'm not blown away.

I remember claiming to really like this one as a youngster and listening now, that was clearly because of its heavier, rockier sound than most of the glam trilogy (I was a bit of a metal-head at the time, and felt strongly the dissonance between that and Sparks).

Now, listening without agenda, I still like that kinda raw, scratchy, yes @dinky, angry vibe. However, on first listen, the whole thing sounds to me as though it "missed" in some way, as though the album is a failed attempt at parody. I'm hoping that will wear off as the week goes on.

Current favourite tracks would be Big Boy, Mississippi river, Everybody's Stupid, Throw Her Away. I don't mind the misogynistic lyrics - I'm pretty confident they actually are parody.

My top favourite by a very long stretch indeed, that has nothing to do with the overall sound of the album, and is a bonus track, is Tearing the Place Apart. I can see why it wasn't included as it's so at odds with the overall feel, but it should have made AN album. The languid, melodic tune accentuates the depth of nihilistic misery of the lyric. It's heartbreaking and beautiful without being sentimental - a really tough trick to pull.

I dislike "I want to hold your hand" intensely, and nothing will convince me otherwise! England - meh.

I'll adjourn further comment until later in the week!
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Tomorrow I'll find out all I should know...

[leslie hanagan]

Should be pointed out that none of the bonus tracks on the CD have anything to do with 'Big Beat'. Four are out-takes from 'Indiscreet', 'I Want To Hold Your Hand' was from the initial session with Rupert Holmes, and 'England' was recorded with Earle Mankey.

[Buckeye Randy]

[waterloosunset]

If you have the CD, you will notice that Throw Her Away and Get a New One drops dead before the end of the song. I told Amazon that they had sent me a defective disc, so they sent me a new one...which does the same thing. I don't know if there is a digital version without this error. If this is not true on Spotify or other streaming services, how is that?

More on the whole album later.
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better drop the requirement that everything be great

[leslie hanagan]

Seems it was a mastering error. The previous 'Island Masters' issue has the correct fade out.

[waterloosunset]

My introduction to Big Beat was wildly different from all of yours, I suspect. Since I am one of those (dreaded) newbies who somehow hadn’t heard of Sparks until the documentary, I didn’t approach albums in order, although I tried to. I don’t have a streaming service (I’ve probably said this 10 times already – sorry!), so I went on a hunt for all the CDs (and then later the vinyl) with an attempt at chronological order in mind.

I was so intrigued by the 21 x21 idea that I went searching for those concerts on YouTube. One of the complete shows was Big Beat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KuP4IrAdRQ&t=2940s , and I watched it about 5 days after seeing The Sparks Brothers. I was completely captivated and went along for the ride, so I probably like the album more than most of you, especially because I didn’t really have any expectations for it. It was also my first exposure to a Sparks concert, however atypical it might have been.

Big Beat will never be KMH or Propaganda, to my mind, two of the best records I’ve ever heard. The sound can be annoying (to quote Randy, “I thought the spacious sound had a demo quality that was recorded in the trunk of a 1974 Chevy Caprice”). But it still displays great humor, if of a more puerile variety, and some fun, rocking tunes. My favorite songs (in order of appearance) are Big Beat, Nothing To Do, I Bought the Mississippi River, Throw Her Away and Get a New One, and Screwed Up, all of which are tremendously funny, and great sing-alongs. My motto of late has been “better drop the requirement that everything be great”, and I believe I put Nothing to Do as Number 10 on my Top 10 List a few months ago (too lazy to check). In the condensed 20th-century-American-history-by-the-decade primer of Screwed Up, Ron encapsulates each decade with just a few words (“In 1920 you could dance, in 1930 lose your pants”). IBTMR takes an absurd concept as a given, and then embellishes upon it (“Do rivers ever need companions?”). I feel OK but not ecstatic about I Want to Be Like Everybody Else, the title of which must be an allusion to the Kinks self-reverential “I’m Not Like Everybody Else”, as well as Everybody’s Stupid, Confusion, and I Like Girls. I don’t care for Fill ‘Er Up and White Women.

So where does that leave me?

Favorite Track: Nothing To Do -can’t tell you why
Least Favorite Track: White Women – the last minute plus make me want to tear my own head off
Score: 7/10
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better drop the requirement that everything be great

[waterloosunset]

Coda: I know that the 2006 CD bonus tracks were never meant to be on this album. That said, Tearing the Place Apart deserves to be discussed somewhere. I think it ranks very highly in Sparks' catalog. Musically it's wonderful, lyrically it's heartbreaking.

I do love the screw up at the Carling Academy.
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better drop the requirement that everything be great

[phdave that afternoon]

I only started listening to this the other day. This is the perfect album for this process of learning one album per week because I might have moved on after a couple of listens. It has really grown on me over the past couple of days. Took me some time to get used to the over the top drums sound and sloppy macho lyrics but I really enjoy it now. I'm also glad they did not keep going with this same sound. Great for a consistent sonic theme (before doing something else).

None of the songs are classics for me. I had listened to Big Boy and Mississippi from the Past Tense greatest hits, but forgot all about them being on that album. They did not really hit home I guess in the context of all of those other classics. Now that I am listening to them in the context of the rest of the album, I really like them.

Mississippi, White Women, Throw Her Away, Everybody's Stupid are all hilarious. I have had I like Girls stuck in my head for the past 24 hours.

I like the extra songs Gone With the Wind, Looks Aren't Everything, Tearing the Place Apart. I know they are not part of the original album but they are for me since I am now listening to them as part of this album and never heard them before (it ain't 1976 anymore). I might like the early version Intrusion/Confusion better than the one on the main album, but I'm not sure. It has something different about it that I like.

I'll give this album a 6.5/10. My least favorite is probably I want to be everybody else, but I don't dislike it. I would like to see I Like Girls live for probably obvious reasons. I heard it was a big part of their live performances at one point.

My cover would be Ramones covering Nothing to Do, since I read Joey Ramone wanted to cover it but the other band members did not. I can totally picture them doing it. Another cover idea is Talking Heads doing Confusion. It sounds like a Talking Heads song to me. I can totally picture David Byrne singing it. I think there are even yelps in the middle that sound David Byrneish.

It is funny after noticing similarities between Sparks and other bands looking up timelines of when albums came out. I noticed that this album came out before Talking Heads even put out their first album. Also the matching band sound of I Like Girls makes me think of Fleetwood Mac's Tusk, and this album is like 3 years prior to that album.

I guess my least favorite of the whole current compilation is I Want to Hold Your Hand. I'm not sure why it was included in the Past Tense compilation. I realize there is a story to it and it is fine for a B side but the final product is not really worth repeated listening over decades like many other songs that did not make it onto that album. I guess I also don't like England that much but it does not bother me.

There wasn't anything particularly weird, at least not weird enough to stand out on a Sparks album.

If you are listening to the album this week with Gone With the Wind included, you might like this video of Vivien Leigh (or her stunt double) falling down the stairs.
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I don’t have time to fill out questionnaires.

[Oscar]

I missed Indiscreet week, so I'll just jot down some quick thoughts here: Amazing album, though not as consistently great as Propaganda or Kimono. "In the Future" was my favorite when I first heard the album, and it probably still is, though "Happy Hunting Ground" is hard to deny. It's one of the earliest songs I know of that really sounds like new wave to me. "Without Using Hands" is my least favorite -- just feels kind of like weird-cleverness for its own sake, without anything deeper under it. I don't love "How Are You Getting Home?" but it also doesn't strike me as "creepy." I mean it's from the point of view of someone who would probably be considered a creep if he were acting like this in real life, but a lot of Sparks songs are like that. (FWIW, this song always makes me picture something like the much-memed Mr Gotcha comic, with Russell popping up in unexpected locations saying "How ya gettin' home?! How ya gettin' home?!," which is funny to me.)

Big Beat is generally underrated and I'm happy to see so much praise for it here. Sure, the sound's a lot less rich and varied than previous albums, but I never thought the production was bad. It's fun to hear Sparks do a fairly stripped down rock album like this, and I like how they save the one bigger-production track ("I Like Girls") for last. It's like they've been pulling the plunger back on the pinball machine for the whole album up to that point and then they finally let it go and things get crazy.

I also think this album has some of Ron's straight up funniest lyrics. "I'm sticking with a brand name" from "White Women" always gets me. "You think I'm great / I think you're GOOD" too. I could keep going with examples. "I light my filter, then reverse it and burn a mouth that's weak on verbs" has to be one of the only examples of physical comedy in song form.

I've gotten the impression that a lot of people think "Everybody's Stupid" is comedically misanthropic, but for me it's almost the opposite. I think the message is more that everybody, including the song's narrator, does stupid things, so there's no reason to beat yourself up over it.

Favorite song, hmmm. When I was younger, "Nothing to Do" was my favorite, and I still think it's kind of a perfect pop song. These days I'd probably go with something on the funnier side, like "I Bought the Mississippi River." "Screwed Up" is up there too.

Indiscreet: 9/10
Big Beat: 7/10

B-sides and bonus tracks: Tearing the Place Apart, Looks Aren't Everything, England, and Profile are my favorites from this era. (All of the Propaganda/Kimono-era b-sides are essential.)

Oh, and Indiscreet has their best album cover.

[Oscar]

[highersynth]

[highersynth]