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who is more devoted to the sparks? the girls? or the boys?
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who is more devoted to the sparks? the girls ? or the boys?
the girls?
51%
 51%  [ 15 ]
the boys?
48%
 48%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 29

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corina
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: who is more devoted to the sparks? the girls? or the boys? Reply with quote

i have the feeling that the girls are more fanatic fans than the boys.

because when girls adores a mans band, there is usually an element of sexual attraction behind it.

and i think this sex appeal element increases the devotion to the band.

what do you think about it?...

correct me if i am wrong.
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jill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In many cases probably it is so. But with this band it's a little more complicated, since none of the Maels was/is the standard handsome rocker or pop star.
I keep reading press stories about Sparks gigs where they say that most of the audience consists of "middle aged nerdy men who know all the lyrics", or about the "obsessiveness" of Sparks fans being exemplified by the story of a (male) head of a Dutch fan club who dissapeared without a trace, and when he was found, he was wearing the same Sparks t-shirt... On the other hand we have the famous screaming girls from the '70s, who were fancying Russell; there's a story about a French girl who hugged him so strongly that she cracked his ribs.

But I don't think that girls (or guys) can dig this music only because they like the looks of a Mael, or that the element of sexual attraction can enhance the perception of this music. Sure, if you fall in love with the music, then you'll like the ones that make the music, but then it's a matter of personal taste whether this liking has or not a sexual sense.
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E-Clect-Eddy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if there's war between the sexes
Then there'll be no people left

quote=Joe Jackson from Real Men
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Lady Is Lingering
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill wrote:
none of the Maels was/is the standard handsome rocker or pop star.


Handsome is a handsome does... And, of course, when you love and admire someone very deeply they often appear physically beautiful/attractive even if they don't seem that way to other people. In relation to the sexual attraction a fan might feel towards a band, the guys versus girls issue is complicated by the fact that some people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex.
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PETER RAWCLIFFE
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lady,its a funny love,ive actually been in love with the same person all my life!!!
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corina
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill

the maels indeed are not the usual sex symbols, but i think that russell is pretty,

look how handsom he is in this clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gffaJDw7XCo

and even ron has his good moments, like in this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgtjEjEKUA4

sexy pimp moustache!

and if you want to see some girls who fancy russell...look at 1:53 approx :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej1GL9_vb3o



lady

you are right, i didnt take in consideration, the fans who love the same sex.



peter

how can you be in love with the same person all your life?
even from the age of zero?...
maybe if its your mother
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corina
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and i want to add another thing about the relation between music and looks:

i like to listen to sparks music, only because of their music,
but i enjoy sparks clips because of their looks

i guess that even when i listen only to the music, without any image, there is still some memory of the clip in my mind...

so i cant really make the separation between the two.
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jill
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

corina wrote:
so i cant really make the separation between the two.

Interesting to hear it.
Until 2006, I didn't see any Sparks videos, other than the three from Gratuitous Sax, so my idea about their music still isn't very strongly related to what I see. I enjoy a lot watching Sparks videos and I think I've seen all that is on the net, but if we talk about, I don't know, dreaming about this music, the mind's eyes are the best. Sure I like to look specifically at the Maels, to see how they were in the '70s and the '80s and later (and there's no need to say again which of them I like the most), but my favorites are the latest clips, from The Rhythm Thief to Dick Around, where they have a much more stylized presence, more like two signs looking almost alike, instead of real, different persons. And this has something to do with my impression that the two of them as a band use to work more homogeneously now then before.
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corina
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill wrote:
corina wrote:
so i cant really make the separation between the two.

Interesting to hear it.
Until 2006, I didn't see any Sparks videos, other than the three from Gratuitous Sax, so my idea about their music still isn't very strongly related to what I see. I enjoy a lot watching Sparks videos and I think I've seen all that is on the net, but if we talk about, I don't know, dreaming about this music, the mind's eyes are the best.

with the sparks, i never had the chance to use my minds eyes, and imagine how do they look.
because when i first heard them, i also first saw them.
(the clip of "when do i get to sing my way" in the 90)
it is interesting to imagine somebody, and to see if it correlates with reality
in fact i am doing it alot here! because you dont have pictures :)


Sure I like to look specifically at the Maels, to see how they were in the '70s and the '80s and later (and there's no need to say again which of them I like the most), but my favorites are the latest clips, from The Rhythm Thief to Dick Around, where they have a much more stylized presence,

its like a completely different band!
indeed, much more stylized, in every aspect.
but i guess that most of us are more stylized today than in the 70 or 80.
i dont think that the fashion and style of this days, will be something to laugh about in the future.
and the good taste that the world has developed, also affects the sparks.


more like two signs looking almost alike, instead of real, different persons. And this has something to do with my impression that the two of them as a band use to work more homogeneously now then before.


here is a good example for what you are saying :


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phonon
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic reminded me of an old Russian essay about Sparks written by Sasha Sherman
(http://imperium.lenin.ru/CEBEP/arc/1/khazaria/current.htm#sparks)

In one paragraph he speculates about this strange and magic Sparks appeal to boys.
here it is in Russian:

...Их следов в анналах гей-культуры мне найти не удалось. Тем не менее звуки "Спаркс" могли бы разбудить дремлющую шлюху в самом замшелом "стрейте". Допусти он хоть малую брешь в круговой обороне своей лелеемой мужественности и "Спаркс" вползут туда уютной прохладной змейкой, поблескивая подведенными глазками, и на доступном языке объяснят его телу, что такое быть женщиной. Тот кто впустил к себе "Спаркс" девственником уже считать себя не может. Впрочем, женщинам они тоже нравятся, но как-то не столь революционно.

I can not give an adequate translation because of my poor English, but it's smth like

... I could not find their trace in the gay culture annals. Nevertheless, the sounds of Sparks could rouse a whore in the most hardened strait man. The moment they let a slightest breach in the all-round defence of their cherished masculinity, Sparks will crawl there as a cool snake... and explain to his body what it's like to be a woman. He who lets Sparks in, can not consider himself a virgin anymore. However, women like Sparks too, but their love is not so "revolutionary"

I can argue that on the lyrical and emotional level I feel quite the opposite - Sparks explaining a girl what it's like to be a boy. But clearly there is something in their music what makes guys become obsessed twith them :))
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corina
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phonon

i dont know if the sparks are really that appealing to straight man.
but probably nobody (man/woman/transsexual) can resist this big bamby eyes of russell,
you just want to hug him, and tell him that everything is going to be ok :)

if we are already speaking about "what its like to be a woman"...
i wonder what is the meaning behind the "pregnant" song.
does the pregnancy=a memory that the woman left inside the man?...

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Lady Is Lingering
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill wrote:
corina wrote:
so i cant really make the separation between the two.

Interesting to hear it.
Until 2006, I didn't see any Sparks videos, other than the three from Gratuitous Sax, so my idea about their music still isn't very strongly related to what I see. I enjoy a lot watching Sparks videos and I think I've seen all that is on the net, but if we talk about, I don't know, dreaming about this music, the mind's eyes are the best. Sure I like to look specifically at the Maels, to see how they were in the '70s and the '80s and later (and there's no need to say again which of them I like the most), but my favorites are the latest clips, from The Rhythm Thief to Dick Around, where they have a much more stylized presence


Not wishing to sound like an old crank who laments the passing of time, but I think that in most cases this is becoming a rare way of 'experiencing' music for the first time. Since the advent of MTV and the multi-media flood which now comes with most new music acts, image is at least on a par with sound, indeed many people know what a band or artist looks like (and who's dating who) BEFORE they've heard them. God knows, every time I look up Sparks on the Internet I get photos of Jordin Sparks coming up but I've still no idea what she sounds like. (I'm guessing I'm quite fortunate in this regard!) I remember when there used to be a genuine mystery surrounding bands... Ok, sometimes you'd get the odd interview or colour pull-out posters of bands you liked in some music mags, or if you were really lucky they'd be on telly on The Old Grey Whistle Test or The Tube (or if a miracle happened and they got into the charts maybe even TOTPs!) but these were precious and you'd still remain very curious about them because your desire for info about them had not been satiated. I think Sparks are that rare breed of band that still manage to maintain some level of mystery about them; a mysteriousness which the visuals of their latest live shows and videos increases rather than diminishes.

corina wrote:
with the sparks, i never had the chance to use my minds eyes, and imagine how do they look.
because when i first heard them, i also first saw them.
(the clip of "when do i get to sing my way" in the 90)
it is interesting to imagine somebody, and to see if it correlates with reality
in fact i am doing it alot here! because you dont have pictures :)


You won't rest until you've photos of us all will you corina?! :)

For many years, when I was growing up, the image I associated with Sparks was the cover of Kimono My House, which my oldest sister had in the house (I knew the geishas weren't the band of course!). If I thought of Sparks I'd think of that image because it was so visually arresting, this is despite the fact that there were photos of them on the back.


corina wrote:
i dont think that the fashion and style of this days, will be something to laugh about in the future.


I think everybody thinks this about the era that they live in but time makes fools of us all :) And there are some pretty godawful retro 80s looks about these days that I thought would never see the light of day again but I guess time also forgives and forgets!


Quote:
... I could not find their trace in the gay culture annals. Nevertheless, the sounds of Sparks could rouse a whore in the most hardened strait man. The moment they let a slightest breach in the all-round defence of their cherished masculinity, Sparks will crawl there as a cool snake... and explain to his body what it's like to be a woman. He who lets Sparks in, can not consider himself a virgin anymore. However, women like Sparks too, but their love is not so "revolutionary"


Very interesting quote, thanks for translating. I have to say, I don't like this sense of 'competitiveness' involved in who like Sparks... women's 'love is not so "revolutionary"'... As a female fan of Sparks I find it just as 'revolutionary' to hear songs from a male perspective that are so insightful and in some ways so critical about orthodox masculinity. More importantly, the person who wrote this seems to be taking the way male AND female Sparks fans engage with the band's music for granted... and is also only looking at ONE way in which the band's perspective on life may impress itself on their fans in a 'revolutionary' manner.
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corina
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lady

you are not an old crank.
sadly you are just right.
today the image is much more important than the music.
so this is why you get to hear good looking people with bad music.

i dont know myself how this jordin sparks sounds. and i am sure im not missing anything...

today, the only musicians who remains mysterious, are the d.js.
you dont really know how most of them look.

and about fashion:
if i compare the fashion of our time, to other eras, i dont think we have something so terrible as afro hair, or big shoulder pads.
we all look more normal today.
maybe except the teenagers, who tend to be exaggerated and full of bad taste.
like this one:


p.s i will not rest till i reveal your faces! :)
but seriously? i respect your privacy.
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Lady Is Lingering
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corina wrote:



p.s i will not rest till i reveal your faces! :)
but seriously? i respect your privacy.


I'd rather a see a face than that! Though some find this sort of thing attractive... funny how when it's a man's arse sticking out of the top of jeans hardly anybody thinks it's appealing.
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PETER RAWCLIFFE
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corina,i was being ironic about loving myself! LADY,You wouldnt want to hear jordan sparks i can tell you,lets put it this way you wont be rushing down to your local hmv in a rush

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Lady Is Lingering
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PETER RAWCLIFFE wrote:
LADY,You wouldnt want to hear jordan sparks i can tell you,lets put it this way you wont be rushing down to your local hmv in a rush


She won American Idol didn't she? That's a warning shot over the head of any music lover in itself.

Ironically, in an interview, Russell was asked to respond to the following "I couldn't marry someone who liked?"

His answer:

"American Idol. I couldn't accept it."

I guess Ms. Jordin Sparks won't be Mrs. Jordin Sparks Mael anytime soon.
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jill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Corina: Well no, actually I saw them too in 1994, when I first heard "My Way", so I didn't need to wonder about the way that they look. But I think one needs to use a great deal of imagination when listening to Sparks, to get as many contexts as you can about this music. Because it really has many contexts. For example, do I hear Gershwin somewhere, or the music of a silent movie, or a Russian composer? Is "nothing left to fear/though the world is flat" an ironic allusion to Thomas Friedman? Does "she got me pregnant" mean the burdening memories of a man after a breakup? (well, yeah..) How was the world when they were playing This Town or When I'm With You for the first time? Because I have no idea about how it was to live in California in the '60s or in London in the '70s (not to mention that I can say almost nothing about how I was myself by the time they had This Town on Top of the Pops).

One more little thing, though you've already got the idea: I didn't say "stylish", I said "stylized" (for example, you can say that they looked stylish on some nights of 21x21, but they looked stylized on the cover&videos of Gratuitous Sax).

@ Phonon: Thank you! I read the article too, as far as I can understand Russian, and I'm with you regarding "Sparks explaining a girl what it's like to be a boy" - or, well, explaining in general... (Just a personal curiosity: you say "Sparks fan since 1974" - where did you get the records then? It was Gorbushka? magnitizdat? official imports? did you heard them on the radio?)

@ Lady: It's not bad to have images on a par with sound and to go straight to Youtube when you want to know something about a band. But probably it's bad when you do this at the expense of your imagination and say "They sound great, I saw their videos!" (yeah, and I always ignored Jordin Sparks too, though I see her videos listed when I search for Sparks on Youtube).
Totally agreed that the Sparks visuals increase the mystery, though I read people saying that they understood better the music after having seen the visuals (including the ones for ECOTD from 21x21).

Lady Is Lingering wrote:
when it's a man's arse sticking out of the top of jeans hardly anybody thinks it's appealing

She gets the alimony too
She gets to look good in the nude...
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Lady Is Lingering
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill wrote:


@ Lady: It's not bad to have images on a par with sound and to go straight to Youtube when you want to know something about a band. But probably it's bad when you do this at the expense of your imagination and say "They sound great, I saw their videos!" ...


Can't tell you the amount of times I've heard people say "Did you see [band name here]'s new song?"

jill wrote:

Lady Is Lingering wrote:
when it's a man's arse sticking out of the top of jeans hardly anybody thinks it's appealing

She gets the alimony too
She gets to look good in the nude...


Mrs. Jordin Sparks Mael has it in the bag.
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corina
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter

sorry,

stupid me!

i didnt understand you, i was sure that you are just exaggerating with this "all my life" thing.
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corina
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill

you know what? i actually do use my imagination when i listen to some sparks songs.

i imagine what clip this song can have.

it happens to me with songs that dont have a clip yet. so i dont have any ready images that are stucked in my mind. and of course it happens with songs that have a very strong visual potential.

for example: "waterproof"
i imagined a group of wet dancers, around russell, who is completely dry!although alot of water falls on him.

i dont know how can it be done technically, and its not a very original idea, but this visual automatically jumped in my mind when i heard "waterproof".

and also when i heard "carnegie hall" i imagined a classic black and white clip, like "the rythm thief"
and a furious teacher who hits the music student on his hand, with this stick from the violin (i dont know how do you call it in english) till he bleeds.
while shouting at him "practice boy!practice!"

the song has a violent feeling to it, so this is why i imagined alot of blood :)
the red colour of the blood, also goes well with the black and white :)
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